What I found particularly interesting about the Adel und Bürger reading was the response of the knights to their military unemployment. Some sold textiles and weapons and became financially successful. Others became “Raubrittern” and used their warring experience for personal gain by stealing from merchants. Naturally this pissed off die Bürger and they published works criticizing the knights and eventually inspiring Parodies and Satires. What is so interesting about this sequence of events and the various reactions and decisions is, like many concepts throughout history, it is timeless. Any particular time in history we can see similar reactions of soldiers that return from war and what kinds of trouble they face on returning. Also the reaction of society to the returning soldiers is sometimes similar as well. The reason why is very simple. When a large group of men at any place in history have spent many years of their lives dedicated to warring, in the name of freedom, out of fear, or for any particular cause seen fit to provoke massacre, they return having lost: their childhood, the raising of their children, jobs or marriages. In such situations one can either, conditions permitting, press on and be successful despite loss, or be angry, drunk, make noise and get into trouble. We see these problems in World War II Vietnam etc, as well as in the Middle Ages when knights are out of commission. People were especially divided over a conflict in the 60’s and 70’s and naturally upon returning the soldiers that were participants, willing or otherwise, were largely ill received. This is a difference from the societal reaction to the knights as the robbing variety provoked a response and Vietnam vets didn’t necessarily. The similarity however is that both societal reactions did have a significant affect on literature and in the modern case, music as well. The more I study this time period, the more connections are easily visible.
, C. Demes
Friday, February 1, 2008
Lebt Rittertum Noch?
Während unsere Diskussion uber modernisierte Rittertum fande ich diese Frage sehr interressant: lebt Rittertum eigentlich noch heute? Es hängt von der Perspektive ab. Ich denke, dass die Ideale der Ritterschaft in vielen Wegen verschwunden sind...dass diese Tugenden und Idealen noch leben, aber sie sind tief im Gedächtnis der Leute gesteckt. Sie sind nicht so offenbar, wenn wir die tägliche Benehmung der Leute beobachten. Zufällige Taten der Freundlichkeit scheinen nicht so alltäglich zu sein. Es ist einfach für mich zu bemerken, wenn jemand besonders freundlich ist, weil ich so einem Mensch nicht so oft begegne. Der Begriff von Selbstbeherrschung scheint auch, eine lockerere Bedeutung zu haben. Zum Beispiel, viele Kritiker verspotten Amerikaner, und sie sagen, dass sie fauler mit wachsender Technologie werden. Wir müssen nicht jagen oder die Gesellschaft immer dienen wie die Ritter. Es geht am meisten um den einzelnen Mensch selbst. An dieser Uni sehe ich nicht so freigebigkeit auch...viele der Studenten (wie ich) haben selbst nicht so viel Geld, und sie müssen vorsichtig mit ihren Ausgaben sein. Fast nie bekommen die Arme Geld, wenn dafür auf der „High St.“ betteln. Und ja, Soldaten kämpften oft für das Land und die Leute wie die Ritter, und sie fühlen sich die Kraft des Nationalismuses, aber viele Kriege sind am meisten fär weltliche und politische Macht durchgeführt. Sie sind nicht so ähnlich zu den Kreuzzugen des Mittelalters – es geht normalerweise nicht um solche geistliche Sachen.
Sam Karnitis
Monty Python and the Holy Grail... A Modern Parody, An Old Idea
In Monty Python and the Holy Grial the concept of Knighthood is parodied. As we read, this is not a new idea. The middle class in the middle ages often mocked the honorable knights via parodies of their own. The Monty Python crew has given us a much more recent (and I feel, very entertaining) take on the story of King Arthur and his quest for the holy grail.
In this parody we find King Arthur and his knights on a quest for the Holy Grail. Instead of riding on horses, the knights gallop around while a servant makes the sound of horse hooves using coconuts.
The concept of of going on a religious quest for the holy grial is mocked by God, who is animated, agitated, and simply wants to complain about how tough it is to be himself. He says, "Everytime I try to talk to someone it's ''sorry this" and "forgive me that" and "I'm not worthy..." He feels it is depressing. I hardly think that is how knights from the early middle ages would have depicted God.
The idea of bravery is made fun of in the tale of Sir Robin the Brave, who runs away from danger instead of facing it. Sir Galahad the Chaste is found to be quite the opposite once he finds a castle full of women, and the valiant Knights of the Round Table like to sing and dance and their leisure.
The tale of Parzival is somewhat reflected in the part of the movie where King Arthur meets the Black Knight in the woods. Instead of fightly bravely and with honor, King Arthur chops all the of the Knight's extremities off while he insists that he can still fight without arms or legs.
Knighthood is parodies in Monty Python and the Holy grail. It may be an old idea... but it is still popular today.
By Colby Crocker
In this parody we find King Arthur and his knights on a quest for the Holy Grail. Instead of riding on horses, the knights gallop around while a servant makes the sound of horse hooves using coconuts.
The concept of of going on a religious quest for the holy grial is mocked by God, who is animated, agitated, and simply wants to complain about how tough it is to be himself. He says, "Everytime I try to talk to someone it's ''sorry this" and "forgive me that" and "I'm not worthy..." He feels it is depressing. I hardly think that is how knights from the early middle ages would have depicted God.
The idea of bravery is made fun of in the tale of Sir Robin the Brave, who runs away from danger instead of facing it. Sir Galahad the Chaste is found to be quite the opposite once he finds a castle full of women, and the valiant Knights of the Round Table like to sing and dance and their leisure.
The tale of Parzival is somewhat reflected in the part of the movie where King Arthur meets the Black Knight in the woods. Instead of fightly bravely and with honor, King Arthur chops all the of the Knight's extremities off while he insists that he can still fight without arms or legs.
Knighthood is parodies in Monty Python and the Holy grail. It may be an old idea... but it is still popular today.
By Colby Crocker
Muss man christlich bin, um für Gott zu kämpfen?
Eine roter Faden durch Parzival und Feirefiz ist die bedeutende Rolle, das Christentum in dem Leben des deutschen Leuten spieltet. Es scheint sehr interressant, wie bereitwillig Feirefiz seiner Glauben verzichten und christlich wurde. Ich denke, dass dieses die Ethnozentrismus der Lied widerspiegeln konnte. Obgleich Wolfram von Eschenbach den so genannte Heiden nicht beschuldigte, weil sie nicht christlich sind, er scheint den stillschweigend Vermutung zu haben, das alle Fremden christlich sein wollten. Wie Feirezfiz für Ruhm und Ruf kämpft, bis er wurde getauft, deutete eine Fehlen der Sittlichkeit ohne Christi an und überseht wie reich im Kultur und Vertrauen andere Lände sein konnte. Dieses Lied zeigte wie centrale Christi zu ihren Lebens gewesen musste und wie vielen Leuten fühlte, dass die ganze Welt christlich bin muss, um die Sitten zu haben.
- Garth
Die Raubritter...
Die Ritter waren sittliche Menschen. Sie waren freigebig, sie halfen und schuetzten Anderen und behalteten Ehre. Aber waehrend des 14. Jahrhunderts wurde die Stellung der Ritter in der Gesellschaft unsicher. Obwohl manche in die Stadt einzogen und wurden Buerger, sind andere Raubritter geworden. Die Raubritter ueberfielen Kaufleute; entweder nahmen sie ihnen ihre Waren oder Loesegeld ab. Ich finde es enttaeuschend, dass die Raubritter ihre ritterlichen Tugenden abwarfen. Sie stahlen von den Unschuldigen und waren sittenlos. Es ist interessant, dass das Rittertum frueher ein wichtiges Teil des Lebens war, aber um 1500 nicht existierend und beschaedigt war.
Mark Esser
Mark Esser
Sangral: Sange Real: Blood Holy, Holy Grale.
I have had to read Parzival nearly to a point of nausea in order to derive a significance. [ I'm not mad about that] My learning on Parzival forced me to look him up in other resources in order to really grasp what was going on with this 13th century story written by Eschenbach. One thing that I can say about this history lesson is that I am seriously shocked by how extremely progressive the minds of the Middle Ages were. In a world like our own, 50 years after Camus, Sartre, de Beauvoir, and the left bankers alike talked about existentialism--- we as students are not unfamiliar with their topics. Many of us might have well thought that existentialism was in fact a child of the left banks and the Parisian's Latin quarter. However, Eschenbach was completely existential 1,000 years before it was formally conceptualized and studied.
Parzival is a pious man, who attempts to live his life for good (similar to the knights, Democrats, and Jamaican Rastafarians); however, his silent relationship with God troubles him. After he leaves King Arthur's Court, he travels for 5 years (in numerology, five is an episode of keen traveler). After 5 years he finds a new horse, goes to a festival and meets a Shaman of sorts (spiritual man), and the man shelters Parzival for 14 days. Within the 14 days, the Sage teaches Parzival about spirituality and the secret of life and of the holy grail: blood holy, Sange Real, Sangral.
While most existentialists are not quite as mystic as Eschenbach-- there is that perpetual question that surfaces and resurfaces. Where are we? What are we doing? Where is God? and Why has he left? These are some extremely heavy questions. It is not that I am biased to history, in regards to thinking that only our technologically obsessed and affluent society can pose and express these questions. But, never has the appropriate light been shed upon history so keenly as to make me think that Parzival figured out the world 1,000 years before I was brought into it.
I think the story of Parzival is extremely cool because its utility fosters philosophy, spirituality, failure, achievement, morality, and reason. What more could be asked from a Middle Aged saga?
Parzival is a pious man, who attempts to live his life for good (similar to the knights, Democrats, and Jamaican Rastafarians); however, his silent relationship with God troubles him. After he leaves King Arthur's Court, he travels for 5 years (in numerology, five is an episode of keen traveler). After 5 years he finds a new horse, goes to a festival and meets a Shaman of sorts (spiritual man), and the man shelters Parzival for 14 days. Within the 14 days, the Sage teaches Parzival about spirituality and the secret of life and of the holy grail: blood holy, Sange Real, Sangral.
While most existentialists are not quite as mystic as Eschenbach-- there is that perpetual question that surfaces and resurfaces. Where are we? What are we doing? Where is God? and Why has he left? These are some extremely heavy questions. It is not that I am biased to history, in regards to thinking that only our technologically obsessed and affluent society can pose and express these questions. But, never has the appropriate light been shed upon history so keenly as to make me think that Parzival figured out the world 1,000 years before I was brought into it.
I think the story of Parzival is extremely cool because its utility fosters philosophy, spirituality, failure, achievement, morality, and reason. What more could be asked from a Middle Aged saga?
"I want... a shrubbery!"
Ich finde es interresant, dass die heilige Gral heute ein Stuck von "Pop" Kultur ist. Wer hat nicht gesehen, "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"?
Dieser ist ein ganz spass Film, aber es ist auch interresant, weil die Gral Geschicht ist viel hunderte jahr alt - aber, was sucht man heute? Ich denke dieser Film, und die alte Koncept, kommt zusammen um eine fremdes Bild zu bauen. Im geistliche Geschicht ist die Gral ein Zeichen fuer Koenig, und wer Gott hat ausgesuchen; dieser war die hoehest Verfolgung. Aber im "Monty Python" ist die Suche illogisch, ein grosse komische Einschuebe.
Also, als ein moderne Kultur, wenn wir ein Filme lieben, dann es sagt etwas ueber uns; und genau wir lieben "Monty Python"! Ich denke, wir haben kein geistliche Suche, aber wir suchen jeder Tag Frohlichkeit und Befriedigung. "Monty Python" stellt eine Frage: "Brauchen wir eine grosse Suche?" Wir sind anders als die mittelalteren Menschen, genau, aber total anders?
Was denkst du? Haben wir, als Menschen, eine grosse Suche?
Ruth Welsh
Dieser ist ein ganz spass Film, aber es ist auch interresant, weil die Gral Geschicht ist viel hunderte jahr alt - aber, was sucht man heute? Ich denke dieser Film, und die alte Koncept, kommt zusammen um eine fremdes Bild zu bauen. Im geistliche Geschicht ist die Gral ein Zeichen fuer Koenig, und wer Gott hat ausgesuchen; dieser war die hoehest Verfolgung. Aber im "Monty Python" ist die Suche illogisch, ein grosse komische Einschuebe.
Also, als ein moderne Kultur, wenn wir ein Filme lieben, dann es sagt etwas ueber uns; und genau wir lieben "Monty Python"! Ich denke, wir haben kein geistliche Suche, aber wir suchen jeder Tag Frohlichkeit und Befriedigung. "Monty Python" stellt eine Frage: "Brauchen wir eine grosse Suche?" Wir sind anders als die mittelalteren Menschen, genau, aber total anders?
Was denkst du? Haben wir, als Menschen, eine grosse Suche?
Ruth Welsh
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